Buffy is a Culture Hero

wilywiccan · 04-09-2007, 11:09 PM

Joseph Campbell (the mythologist) talked about a culture hero. A very special type of hero that is rare to find. If you look at some of the mythological stories throughout the world, you can find some of these unique individuals. I think that Buffy is a culture hero. The following is a list of some of the stages a culture hero must go through in his/her life.

1. The hero is introduced in his/her ordinary world.
2. The call to adventure.
3. The hero is relunctant at first.
4. The hero is encouraged by the wise old man or woman
5. The hero passes the first threshold.
6. The hero encounters tests and helpers.
7. The hero reaches the innermost cave.
8. The hero endures the supreme ordeal.
9. The hero seizes the sword.
10. The road back.
11. Resurrection.
12. Return with the elixir.

ohiofan · 04-10-2007, 01:09 AM

You're right on the money, Wilywiccan. Buffy is a culture hero. The entire 144 episodes follows the "Hero's Journey" in the same vein as "The Iliad" and "The Oddessey". It's an epic in the Homeric tradition. Good observation!

wilywiccan · 04-10-2007, 01:47 AM

I think she could also be considered a "light hero". Usually blond and pure of spirit. While being a slayer has its dark sides (Faith, anyone?), Buffy has always had an innocence about her, even when she was suffering from depression. She was never power hungry, she cared about the people who got caught in the crossfire, she didn't become a slayer out of duty alone. Her sense of right and wrong, her morality, excelled those of her friends and of average people. She had every reason to hate the world. Her mother died of an aneurism/brain tumor, she was ripped out of Heaven (where she was for 5 months!), she had the worse first time/morning after known to man (Angelus), she was constantly betrayed by her friends and family, she was buried alive twice (it was one of her greatest fears too), she was shot in the heart, impaled with a sword, mind raped, nearly physically raped on many occasions by many people, and many other horrible things. And yet she didn't hate the world. She didn't think she was owed anything. She yearned for a normal life, but she wouldn't quit saving lives and the world to have it. She believed in the greater good. And goodness in general.

eadweard · 04-10-2007, 09:45 AM

There is this book, What Would Buffy Do? The Vampire Slayer As Spiritual Guide by Jana Riess, that regards Buffy from a Christian point of view. Now, in no way can I be regarded as religious, but this is pretty good. It is NOT an ultra-conservative "Buffy is going to hell and so are you if you like her" tome. I think everyone here would enjoy it. Incidentally, I have a WWBD "dog-tag" that I wear sometimes.

**andrew r** · 04-10-2007, 01:45 PM

Interesting, I like the ideas liking it to Buffy. I guess they can be applied to her. I guess the sword being either a stake or the scythe in S7.

wilywiccan · 04-10-2007, 09:27 PM

**There is this book, What Would Buffy Do? The Vampire Slayer As Spiritual Guide by Jana Riess, that regards Buffy from a Christian point of view.**

I have heard of that book. The idea was supposed to come from "What would Jesus Do?" Not to insult Jesus (I may be wiccan but I respect Jesus, my parents are Christian ministers) but I think Buffy is extremely Christ-like. There were a lot of elements on the series that dealt with sacrifice, the power of blood, compassion, redemption, philosophical and theological questions, spiritual journeys, etc.

She has gone on a Spirit Quest in the desert where she met her spirit guide in the form of the first slayer, who told her that she is full of love and that death (her death) is her gift. She has prophetic dreams. I would consider either Faith or Willow to be her Judas. She has been referred to as "the lamb" in Prophecy Girl, "the warrior of the people" in Bargaining #1 and "a hero". She willingly sacrificed her life twice. She has been to both Heaven and Hell. There are a zillion other things on the series that can be religiously interpreted. Infact, that would make a great book. I wonder if What would Buffy do? covers any of it.

There is a great quote in the BTVS book "Apocalypse Memories" that I love. It is by the archangel Michael and he is saying some really good things about Buffy. Darn, I have to check the book out at the library. I don't remember it word for word. lol.

I want to buy What would Buffy Do? but I don't have any spending cash of late. I recently got a job though, so maybe next month.

ohiofan · 04-10-2007, 10:56 PM

Great observations, Wilywiccan. I have that book and will try to find those quotes for you when I'm off in a day or so. In the meantime, here's one of my golden oldie wallies dealing with that book:

wilywiccan · 04-10-2007, 11:44 PM

I like the picture. It was a great book. Not the absolute best written on the series, but it had something, you know? That scene with Buffy & Dawn, the Spuffy moments, Michael, the biblical style apocalypse. I need to buy it. Or at least read it again.

recordable2 · 04-11-2007, 02:42 PM

Thakns for wonderful wallpaper from Sarah!!!

**andrew r** · 04-11-2007, 02:49 PM

I think though Faith did redeem herself, even if it wasn't in the eyes of Buffy herself.

ohiofan · 04-11-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilywiccan

There is a great quote in the BTVS book "Apocalypse Memories" that I love. It is by the archangel Michael and he is saying some really good things about Buffy. Darn, I have to check the book out at the library. I don't remember it word for word. lol.

I think I may have found the section you're thinking about. It's on page 194 and concerns Buffy's attempt to distract Michael from opening another of the plagues upon mankind. She cannot figure out how he knows so much about her. He tells her that he's been sleeping since the beginning of time, but he had the ability to watch her in his dreams.
"Then how do you know so much about me and my life?" she asked. "I assumed you were floating around and spying on me the whole time."
"My sleep isn't like the sleep of a human," he explained. "I was inactive, but I dreamed of the world and those within it. I couldn't live in the world, but I could watch it. I watched you. You were beautiful."
Buffy blushed, embarrassed. "I didn't think angels cared about stuff like that," she said.
Michael nodded gravely. "You were a force of light in the darkness," he told her. "Fighting with passion even when there was no hope to bolster you. You inspired me."
Buffy was speechless. "I --- I just did what I had to do," she stammered.
"Not many would have fought so hard for so long," he told her. "You were a protector of the people. You were a hero."
She was silent, taking this in. It was pretty cool to know she had inspired an angel. But she realized that both of them had been referring to her in the past tense. As if she were already gone.

wilywiccan · 04-11-2007, 10:04 PM

That's it. I think I'm gonna cry now. That scene really touched me.

wilywiccan · 04-11-2007, 10:08 PM

I believe in redemption, but I just can't forgive Faith. She brutally stabbed a lonely, helpless, innocent man to death. Not to mention that she took joy in raping Buffy. While she didn't really know what that hand device would do until she used it, she wasn't exactly trying to fix the situation afterwards. The bathtub scene made it look like she was "touching" Buffy's naked body. Not in a hygienic way. Then she had sex while in Buffy's body.

eadweard · 04-12-2007, 02:24 AM

And, therefore, virtually raped Riley: he would not knowingly have sex with Faith. BUT, Buffy did forgive her - not in so many words, but you can see from her actions/interactions with Faith in the 7th season that Buffy has buried the hatchet. When Buffy is "voted" out, she urges Faith to lead the horde. She defends Faith's leadership when Vi (?) says their failed mission is because they abandoned Buffy. Later, Buffy shares the scythe with Faith, and while they may never be friends, Buffy acknowledges the burden they both carry alone - and being hot chicks. Let's face it, if you are going to hold Faith's murdering of the mayor's assistant against her, then what about Willow skinning Warren? Andrew knifing Jonathan? And let's not forget the trail of blood behind Angel and Spike. All have sought and, to different degrees, attained redemption. Joss has said one of the underlying messages of BVS and Angel was redemption: even the worst can achieve it. It is a hopeful message. OH, and one more thing about Faith: I NEVER liked her!!

wilywiccan · 04-12-2007, 03:14 AM

Actually, I wasn't talking about Mayor Wilkins' assistant. I meant that volcanologist professor. While I was disgusted with her lack of remorse over the accidental death of Mr. Finch (I think that was the name of the assistant), the death was still not her fault. But that other one was. And yes, she raped Riley. I don't think Buffy is capable of holding grudges/seeking revenge, not really anyways. It probably has to do with being a hero. Her compassion, like Jesus, extends to everyone no matter what they do. Willow rippping her out of heaven and zapping her with lightning bolts, Spike trying to sexually assault her, Faith stealing her body, the scoobies ostracizing her, etc. Infact, most times they wrong her, she thinks she is to blame. While Faith went to jail for a few years (hardly enough for murder, attempted murder, etc) she never really showed remorse for specific atrocities. She kind of generalized all of her evil behavior.

**andrew r** · 04-12-2007, 01:48 PM

Some good points made there Ed about the Scoobies. I guess then really Xander's the only innocent out of the group. And he lost an eye.

Also the killing of Mr Finch, (a single stab wound caused by a stake) was accidental to an extent as Faith reacted even when Buffy told her to stop. Though she didn't show any remorse, showed that Faith had gone bad. As for her not doing enough inside (it was supposed to be life as in life), it was the info that Wesley gave her about Angelus being on the loose in LA that caused her to breakout, and Wes did help too. I guess I'm loosing an argument here, as I do like Faith.

wilywiccan · 04-12-2007, 09:54 PM

Xander is not innocent. In Becoming #2 Willow told him to tell Buffy that she was going to try the spell again to restore Angel's soul. When he was standing in front of Buffy, while she was on her way to fight Angelus, he didn't do it. He told Buffy that Willow said to "kick his (Angelus) ass". If Buffy had known that Willow was going to bring Angel back, she would've been trying to distract him from unleashing Acathla. Instead, her mindset was that either way she was going to kill him so it didn't matter if he unleashed Acathla since she would soon remedy it by killing him. Xander is responsible for Angel spending months (which to Angel was over a 100 years) in Hell. And Xander never even fessed up to it. Buffy didn't even tell him that she knew what he did to her and Angel until season seven when he was yelling at her for wanting to kill Anya (who had willlingly chosen to become a vengeance demon again and massacred a bunch of frat boys). The reason Xander did that to Angel was because he was still in love with Buffy. He hated Angel even before Angelus came back. He wanted to be with Buffy and couldn't believe she would choose a vampire over him.

wilywiccan · 04-12-2007, 10:02 PM

It was different with Spike. He was a soulless demon when he killed people. So instead of seeing all the bad things he did back then I find it amazing that he was able to fall in love with a human (the slayer no less) and try so hard to be good for her.

eadweard · 04-13-2007, 09:44 AM

BUT, Spike showed by his love of Buffy, before he was re-ensouled AND before he was chipped, that he could could control his murderous desires, but chose to instead let his demon run free - and it is obvious that his demon has to be a very weak demon. How else can you explain his actions vis-a-vi Buffy. A demon is supposed to completely subsume the body's personality, but the poet William kept emerging. I wonder how many of Spike's victims were actually victims of William, intent on vengeance for all wrongs he perceived committed against him. As for Faith, she willingly surrendered to the police and accepted her prison sentence: she proved that she could escape anytime she wanted to, but only did so when Wesley came to her with the news of the re-emergence of Angelus. I think she feels that her actions, rather than words, will be her redemption - and that explains in part why the loner that she is, is willing to work with others; why the rebel is willing to be led. And Xander: he does have some answering to do for his betrayal of Buffy's trust.

**andrew r** · 04-13-2007, 03:27 PM

Okay, Xander did tell one lie. But he's not killed anyone or threatened to destroy the world like other's Buffy knows.

04-09-2007, 11:09 PM	#1 (permalink)
wilywiccan PETA freak Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 130 My Profile	Buffy is a Culture Hero Joseph Campbell (the mythologist) talked about a culture hero. A very special type of hero that is rare to find. If you look at some of the mythological stories throughout the world, you can find some of these unique individuals. I think that Buffy is a culture hero. The following is a list of some of the stages a culture hero must go through in his/her life. 1. The hero is introduced in his/her ordinary world. 2. The call to adventure. 3. The hero is relunctant at first. 4. The hero is encouraged by the wise old man or woman 5. The hero passes the first threshold. 6. The hero encounters tests and helpers. 7. The hero reaches the innermost cave. 8. The hero endures the supreme ordeal. 9. The hero seizes the sword. 10. The road back. 11. Resurrection. 12. Return with the elixir.

04-10-2007, 09:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
wilywiccan PETA freak Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 130 My Profile	There is this book, What Would Buffy Do? The Vampire Slayer As Spiritual Guide by Jana Riess, that regards Buffy from a Christian point of view. I have heard of that book. The idea was supposed to come from "What would Jesus Do?" Not to insult Jesus (I may be wiccan but I respect Jesus, my parents are Christian ministers) but I think Buffy is extremely Christ-like. There were a lot of elements on the series that dealt with sacrifice, the power of blood, compassion, redemption, philosophical and theological questions, spiritual journeys, etc. She has gone on a Spirit Quest in the desert where she met her spirit guide in the form of the first slayer, who told her that she is full of love and that death (her death) is her gift. She has prophetic dreams. I would consider either Faith or Willow to be her Judas. She has been referred to as "the lamb" in Prophecy Girl, "the warrior of the people" in Bargaining #1 and "a hero". She willingly sacrificed her life twice. She has been to both Heaven and Hell. There are a zillion other things on the series that can be religiously interpreted. Infact, that would make a great book. I wonder if What would Buffy do? covers any of it. There is a great quote in the BTVS book "Apocalypse Memories" that I love. It is by the archangel Michael and he is saying some really good things about Buffy. Darn, I have to check the book out at the library. I don't remember it word for word. lol. I want to buy What would Buffy Do? but I don't have any spending cash of late. I recently got a job though, so maybe next month. Last edited by wilywiccan : 04-10-2007 at 09:28 PM.

04-10-2007, 10:56 PM	#7 (permalink)
ohiofan Fan Artist Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,408 My Profile	OHIOFAN'S HUMBLE WALLPAPERS Great observations, Wilywiccan. I have that book and will try to find those quotes for you when I'm off in a day or so. In the meantime, here's one of my golden oldie wallies dealing with that book:

04-12-2007, 02:24 AM	#14 (permalink)
eadweard Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bristol, TN, USA Posts: 4,262 My Profile	And, therefore, virtually raped Riley: he would not knowingly have sex with Faith. BUT, Buffy did forgive her - not in so many words, but you can see from her actions/interactions with Faith in the 7th season that Buffy has buried the hatchet. When Buffy is "voted" out, she urges Faith to lead the horde. She defends Faith's leadership when Vi (?) says their failed mission is because they abandoned Buffy. Later, Buffy shares the scythe with Faith, and while they may never be friends, Buffy acknowledges the burden they both carry alone - and being hot chicks. Let's face it, if you are going to hold Faith's murdering of the mayor's assistant against her, then what about Willow skinning Warren? Andrew knifing Jonathan? And let's not forget the trail of blood behind Angel and Spike. All have sought and, to different degrees, attained redemption. Joss has said one of the underlying messages of BVS and Angel was redemption: even the worst can achieve it. It is a hopeful message. OH, and one more thing about Faith: I NEVER liked her!! Last edited by eadweard : 04-12-2007 at 02:32 AM.

04-12-2007, 09:54 PM	#17 (permalink)
wilywiccan PETA freak Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 130 My Profile	Xander is not innocent. In Becoming #2 Willow told him to tell Buffy that she was going to try the spell again to restore Angel's soul. When he was standing in front of Buffy, while she was on her way to fight Angelus, he didn't do it. He told Buffy that Willow said to "kick his (Angelus) ass". If Buffy had known that Willow was going to bring Angel back, she would've been trying to distract him from unleashing Acathla. Instead, her mindset was that either way she was going to kill him so it didn't matter if he unleashed Acathla since she would soon remedy it by killing him. Xander is responsible for Angel spending months (which to Angel was over a 100 years) in Hell. And Xander never even fessed up to it. Buffy didn't even tell him that she knew what he did to her and Angel until season seven when he was yelling at her for wanting to kill Anya (who had willlingly chosen to become a vengeance demon again and massacred a bunch of frat boys). The reason Xander did that to Angel was because he was still in love with Buffy. He hated Angel even before Angelus came back. He wanted to be with Buffy and couldn't believe she would choose a vampire over him. Last edited by wilywiccan : 04-12-2007 at 09:57 PM.

04-10-2007, 01:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
ohiofan Fan Artist Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,408 My Profile	You're right on the money, Wilywiccan. Buffy is a culture hero. The entire 144 episodes follows the "Hero's Journey" in the same vein as "The Iliad" and "The Oddessey". It's an epic in the Homeric tradition. Good observation!

04-10-2007, 01:47 AM	#3 (permalink)
wilywiccan PETA freak Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 130 My Profile	I think she could also be considered a "light hero". Usually blond and pure of spirit. While being a slayer has its dark sides (Faith, anyone?), Buffy has always had an innocence about her, even when she was suffering from depression. She was never power hungry, she cared about the people who got caught in the crossfire, she didn't become a slayer out of duty alone. Her sense of right and wrong, her morality, excelled those of her friends and of average people. She had every reason to hate the world. Her mother died of an aneurism/brain tumor, she was ripped out of Heaven (where she was for 5 months!), she had the worse first time/morning after known to man (Angelus), she was constantly betrayed by her friends and family, she was buried alive twice (it was one of her greatest fears too), she was shot in the heart, impaled with a sword, mind raped, nearly physically raped on many occasions by many people, and many other horrible things. And yet she didn't hate the world. She didn't think she was owed anything. She yearned for a normal life, but she wouldn't quit saving lives and the world to have it. She believed in the greater good. And goodness in general.

04-10-2007, 09:45 AM	#4 (permalink)
eadweard Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bristol, TN, USA Posts: 4,262 My Profile	There is this book, What Would Buffy Do? The Vampire Slayer As Spiritual Guide by Jana Riess, that regards Buffy from a Christian point of view. Now, in no way can I be regarded as religious, but this is pretty good. It is NOT an ultra-conservative "Buffy is going to hell and so are you if you like her" tome. I think everyone here would enjoy it. Incidentally, I have a WWBD "dog-tag" that I wear sometimes.

04-10-2007, 01:45 PM	#5 (permalink)
andrew r Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: England Posts: 31,548 My Profile	Interesting, I like the ideas liking it to Buffy. I guess they can be applied to her. I guess the sword being either a stake or the scythe in S7.

04-10-2007, 11:44 PM	#8 (permalink)
wilywiccan PETA freak Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 130 My Profile	I like the picture. It was a great book. Not the absolute best written on the series, but it had something, you know? That scene with Buffy & Dawn, the Spuffy moments, Michael, the biblical style apocalypse. I need to buy it. Or at least read it again.

04-11-2007, 02:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
recordable2 Love, my life inspiration Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany - Berlin Posts: 6,874 My Profile	Thakns for wonderful wallpaper from Sarah!!!

04-11-2007, 02:49 PM	#10 (permalink)
andrew r Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: England Posts: 31,548 My Profile	I think though Faith did redeem herself, even if it wasn't in the eyes of Buffy herself.

04-11-2007, 10:04 PM	#12 (permalink)
wilywiccan PETA freak Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 130 My Profile	That's it. I think I'm gonna cry now. That scene really touched me.

04-11-2007, 10:08 PM	#13 (permalink)
wilywiccan PETA freak Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 130 My Profile	I believe in redemption, but I just can't forgive Faith. She brutally stabbed a lonely, helpless, innocent man to death. Not to mention that she took joy in raping Buffy. While she didn't really know what that hand device would do until she used it, she wasn't exactly trying to fix the situation afterwards. The bathtub scene made it look like she was "touching" Buffy's naked body. Not in a hygienic way. Then she had sex while in Buffy's body.

04-12-2007, 03:14 AM	#15 (permalink)
wilywiccan PETA freak Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 130 My Profile	Actually, I wasn't talking about Mayor Wilkins' assistant. I meant that volcanologist professor. While I was disgusted with her lack of remorse over the accidental death of Mr. Finch (I think that was the name of the assistant), the death was still not her fault. But that other one was. And yes, she raped Riley. I don't think Buffy is capable of holding grudges/seeking revenge, not really anyways. It probably has to do with being a hero. Her compassion, like Jesus, extends to everyone no matter what they do. Willow rippping her out of heaven and zapping her with lightning bolts, Spike trying to sexually assault her, Faith stealing her body, the scoobies ostracizing her, etc. Infact, most times they wrong her, she thinks she is to blame. While Faith went to jail for a few years (hardly enough for murder, attempted murder, etc) she never really showed remorse for specific atrocities. She kind of generalized all of her evil behavior.

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04-12-2007, 01:48 PM	#16 (permalink)
andrew r Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: England Posts: 31,548 My Profile	Some good points made there Ed about the Scoobies. I guess then really Xander's the only innocent out of the group. And he lost an eye. Also the killing of Mr Finch, (a single stab wound caused by a stake) was accidental to an extent as Faith reacted even when Buffy told her to stop. Though she didn't show any remorse, showed that Faith had gone bad. As for her not doing enough inside (it was supposed to be life as in life), it was the info that Wesley gave her about Angelus being on the loose in LA that caused her to breakout, and Wes did help too. I guess I'm loosing an argument here, as I do like Faith.

04-12-2007, 10:02 PM	#18 (permalink)
wilywiccan PETA freak Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 130 My Profile	It was different with Spike. He was a soulless demon when he killed people. So instead of seeing all the bad things he did back then I find it amazing that he was able to fall in love with a human (the slayer no less) and try so hard to be good for her.

04-13-2007, 09:44 AM	#19 (permalink)
eadweard Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bristol, TN, USA Posts: 4,262 My Profile	BUT, Spike showed by his love of Buffy, before he was re-ensouled AND before he was chipped, that he could could control his murderous desires, but chose to instead let his demon run free - and it is obvious that his demon has to be a very weak demon. How else can you explain his actions vis-a-vi Buffy. A demon is supposed to completely subsume the body's personality, but the poet William kept emerging. I wonder how many of Spike's victims were actually victims of William, intent on vengeance for all wrongs he perceived committed against him. As for Faith, she willingly surrendered to the police and accepted her prison sentence: she proved that she could escape anytime she wanted to, but only did so when Wesley came to her with the news of the re-emergence of Angelus. I think she feels that her actions, rather than words, will be her redemption - and that explains in part why the loner that she is, is willing to work with others; why the rebel is willing to be led. And Xander: he does have some answering to do for his betrayal of Buffy's trust.

04-13-2007, 03:27 PM	#20 (permalink)
andrew r Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: England Posts: 31,548 My Profile	Okay, Xander did tell one lie. But he's not killed anyone or threatened to destroy the world like other's Buffy knows.