Happy 4th!

[Captain Beefheart]

You mean attempting to, I believe an invasion would involve a considerable body of armed forced landing in a foreign domain.

True, but there weren't any doppler radars back then so it was pretty much impossible to know the sea would turn Moby **** on us. Apart from that the only thing that stood between conquer and defeat were a bunch of dunces blindly serving the Queen under sum e f!uckity f!uckword slogan. Hellen Mirren and Cate Blancett are probably very appreciative of England's history. HAHAHHAHA.

[Jocasta]

Still hurts? (When you resort to swearing, insults and mock laughing, I know it does).
You obviously still feel so bad about the Spanish failure that you have to blame the weather and the poor opposition after all the time. It's funny though that it was you brought it up. Those dunces did a great job, obviously blindly following a great Queen was more effective than blindly following a very average King.
So long and thanks for all the fish.

[Jim Halpert]

Originally Posted by R@H

happy 4th of july to the most f*cked up nation in the world!

Well, that's a bit harsh, don't you think? I mean, its really not the people's fault, the "grassroots" as Ron Paul says. I mean their government has gone so out of control, it's too powerful to remove them, so "if they can't beat them" they join them. Why? Because to them its safer to stick by the one who's in power so they're not marked as traitors ["traitors" being those who THINK and QUESTION because God forbid someone questions their government. The Heresy! ]

Originally Posted by msfixr

If Obama wins I'm emigrating to Australia.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Dont worry Fix. GOD wont let that happen.

God couldn't care less for your country, sweetheart.

Originally Posted by CB

Which wouldn't surprise me if you supported the 70 year baboon who can't even use a computer and who's wife stole drugs from sick children and committted fraud to get them and escaped prosecution because she's a wealthy white lady with a powerful husband.

This is why my family left Texas and moved to British Columbia, good ol' Canada (that, and because the weed grows more freely). Doesn't matter what the fat cats do, if they have the money, they're guaranteed to get off easy, and that's the type of people loyalist want in power to run your country. Money talks, it screams, actually. Disregarding how immoral they are, how dumb they are, they'll eat up anything because "they have to stand behind" their president, regardless how wrong it is.

But let the Americans celebrate the freedom they think they have.
How's that Patriot Act going. Have any of you even read it? Be honest. Or your Constitution for that matter?

You elected president ears cowboy boots with a tux. For f!uck's sake! Your president can't even spell Weapons of Mass Destruction let alone find any. I mean the man can't even feed himself a small wheat based product without risk of killing himself.

OMGz, LULZ! I think I have a man-crush on CB now.

The reason why its so easy to go anti-american is because there's this sense you all give as if you're entitled to things simply because you're an American, as if God smiles upon you and blesses your nation. He doesn't. For a Christian nation, you set a bad example. You export War, generate debt [I forget who owns your debt: China or Japan, maybe both. Basically they hold you by the nads], outsource work so when you call for customer support you get someone from New Delhi helping you with your car insurance account, drive massive cars you don't need, guzzle up too much petrol for your own good, and you turn a blind eye to all of these problems because you're uncomfortable. You want to feeeeeel good 24/7, not deal with it, have someone else deal with it because life is suppose to be FUN! Well, I'm all for fun, but you need to be responsible for yourself and for your world. Put down the chips and make a difference.

And when you do, people will stop with the anti-american talk. But in the meantime, you're all a bunch of fat little children who still wants their cake and eat it too. No offense.

[R@H]

Americans are so easily offended, I just said what everyone in Europe thinks... But being told to **** off and personal attacks is the imediate response of an American, which is kinda sad. I´m not anti american but I just don´t like the small minded backstabbing white trash Americans that represent and rule the country.

[Ox]

But this anti-Americanism is just too easy, like hating the British and this was meant as a celebratory thread for a national holiday.
Happy BBQs to you.

And thank you Jocasta! And a thanks to you Brits for getting us going in the first place. We owe our language and institutions to you guys.

I can't imagine what we would look like if another country had started us....

Sadly had to cancel the BBQ as we had a thunderstorm drop 3 inches of rain that flooded out my Dad's basement. I spent the holiday ankle deep in sewer muck ripping out wet carpet and dragging it out of the house.....what a mess!


My holiday beer tasted good tho!

[Bill5461]

Originally Posted by R@H

Americans are so easily offended, I just said what everyone in Europe thinks... But being told to **** off and personal attacks is the imediate response of an American, which is kinda sad. I´m not anti american but I just don´t like the small minded backstabbing white trash Americans that represent and rule the country.

I used to think you were different, but you've turned out to be just a piece of low life trash. And I do believe you to be anti-American. The SAD thing is you've shown your true colors

[R@H]

I am different, just not the kind of different that you want me to be. And I am not anti American, theres a lot of good american people out there but not the ones that tell me to go **** myself everytime I express my opinion and im not just talking about this topic but a lot of previous topics as well.

You hardly know me so how come you can judge me? I have no clue who u are, ive seen ur screenname every now and then but thats it.

[MSFixR]

Originally Posted by Ox

But this anti-Americanism is just too easy, like hating the British and this was meant as a celebratory thread for a national holiday.
Happy BBQs to you.

And thank you Jocasta! And a thanks to you Brits for getting us going in the first place. We owe our language and institutions to you guys.

I can't imagine what we would look like if another country had started us....

Sadly had to cancel the BBQ as we had a thunderstorm drop 3 inches of rain that flooded out my Dad's basement. I spent the holiday ankle deep in sewer muck ripping out wet carpet and dragging it out of the house.....what a mess!


My holiday beer tasted good tho!

Sorry to hear that, Ox. We had about as close to perfect 4th here in St. Louis as you can get in July. Flood waters north of us are receeding. The weather was overcast but that kept the temperature down. With the 4th falling on a Friday, it meant a 3-day weekend for most folk. We did a little bit of shopping and had a leasurely lunch. Around 8:30 we went to view the fireworks display in a neighboring town; I haven't been to such an event in quite a while (don't like hot, smelly crowds). It seems the fireworks were more elaborate than I remember from the past.

Originally Posted by Bill5461

I used to think you were different, but you've turned out to be just a piece of low life trash. And I do believe you to be anti-American. The SAD thing is you've shown your true colors

Quite unusual for Bill to vent on someone like this but I can't say you didn't deserve it R@H.

A small history lesson: New Amsterdam was provisionally ceded to the English in 1664 and permanently transferred to them in 1674 under the provisions of the Treaty of Westminister. America did not declare her independance from Britian until 1776.

[R@H]

well it is 10 against 1 so I can keep trying to defend myself or convince all of u but there is no point, its obviously like bush said if you are not with me, you are against me. But I'm neither I'm not anti american I'm anti George Bush.

[angelbunny225]

Happy 4th EVERYONE YAY!

[Captain Beefheart]

Europeans and others seem to not understand just how isolated the people of the US have been until recent years. It reminds me a lot of the Chinese at the time of the Boxer Rebellion. The average Chinese had been raised to believe that they were better off than the rest of the world and superior in every way. This is typical of an isolated culture.

While it's hard to deny that the US has, since WWII and before, mposed death and suffering on millions of people who opposed or happened to be in the way of US power the situatio isn't unique. Throughout history nations, that have had the power, have looted the resources of other nations. Unless you are led to believe the Romans believed that they were bringing wonderful benefits to those they looted.

Patriotism is basically another form of religion, I feel. At it's principles, at its core state, patriotism can be a beneficial thing. A reasonable amount of pride in one's country is healthy in that it promotes solidarity amongst fellow countrymen, among other things. Just like religion, however, taking patriotism out too far, overreaching it, causes problems. When one's excessively patriotic, it creates avenues for others to use you to their own advantage.

In this regard, America could do better. All too often you see shirts that say "American And Proud Of It" or something to that extent. This sort of thing reeks of snobbery, of attempted one-upping, of saying "I'm better than you because I'm a member of this group and you're not!" This "false" patriotism is irksome in that it appears to exist not because of pride in one's country, but more an attempt to use one's country and whatever prestige it holds to one's own advantage.

[Jocasta]

This "false" patriotism is irksome in that it appears to exist not because of pride in one's country, but more an attempt to use one's country and whatever prestige it holds to one's own advantage.

I think that's just your opinion, I'm sure others could argue you're wrong and that their patriotism is as pure as any other nationalities. Just because a country is powerful (in either an economic or political sense) does not necessarily mean the individuals who are proud of that nation are any more jingoistic or gung ho than the people of a "weak" nation. That's an easy and rather lazy assumption to make.

[Captain Beefheart]

Slow down Bruce Willis in Die Hard 3, I was just stating an opinion. Like all things in the human experience, whether nationalism is a good thing or a bad thing can only be determined by the circumstances and degree to which nationalism is felt and used. I have read history more than some, less than others. One thing always jumped out at me was that nationalism seemed to be more inspired/exacerbated by humiliation than anything else.

And i'm not on sum anti-american trip since this argument isn't strictly related to America(you could apply it to the: english, french, russian, german etc etc). I've always had a laugh when told La Marseillaise is the most beautiful anthem ever composed. It's as if people didn't know their history or didn't make an effort to understand it(the history of any nation as it is written and taught is usually to a great degree lies. The lies are sometimes told outright and sometimes facilitated by omission)

Same with the facade of fighting for "freedom", the idea of democracy being synonymous to freedom, Whose freedom? The whole trinity of empty abstractions (freedom, justice, evil) steeze to unite people onto the slippery slope of required patriotism always triggered my gag reflexes. Maybe i'm crazy and get paranoid whenever I see people bumping that Iron Man s!hit with it's rambo archetype(the former agent of an institution, once realizing the hypocrisy of his associates, becoming a rogue in order to cut through the bureaucratic bulls!hit and fight for whats 'right'. It's a great technique in times of low morale to capitalize on distrust of government and yet reinforce basic ideas central to the power structure they claim to be critical of.)

But that's just me. There are so many self-reinforcing aspects to this type of patriotism and it's supporting political and social forms that it almost seems like some sort of natural manifestation in this day and age.

[Spin Teacher]

Aunt next door did their fireworks tonight, they only spent around $400 on fireworks. However the people across the street spent $38,000 on fireworks this year, and they let theirs off tonight as well. It's nice to have rich folk living nearby...free firework shows. :D

[Jocasta]

Originally Posted by Jocasta

I think that's just your opinion,

Originally Posted by Captain Beefheart

I was just stating an opinion.

Did you choose to ignore my opening comment just to satisfy your own argument or are you simply incapable of reading what others actually write? (As I've mentioned before).

[MSFixR]

Originally Posted by Jocasta

Did you choose to ignore my opening comment just to satisfy your own argument or are you simply incapable of reading what others actually write? (As I've mentioned before).

Give him a break Jo, he's busy composing his next epistle.

[Frasier]

Originally Posted by angelbunny225

Happy 4th EVERYONE YAY!

Originally Posted by Spin Teacher

Aunt next door did their fireworks tonight, they only spent around $400 on fireworks. However the people across the street spent $38,000 on fireworks this year, and they let theirs off tonight as well. It's nice to have rich folk living nearby...free firework shows. :D

Well, these are the replies that belong here. And it's remarkable that Spin is among them.

It's fascinating to see, that there are some kind reflexes when it comes to discussions about patriotism...nationalism, whatever and that there are undeniable frictions. I mean look out what this thread was about.

Obama is popular in Europe. Why? Only because he is not Bush? That is still undeserved... fFor the rest of the discussion I'd say.. see you in politics.

[Captain Beefheart]

Originally Posted by Jocasta

Did you choose to ignore my opening comment just to satisfy your own argument or are you simply incapable of reading what others actually write? (As I've mentioned before).

Did you choose to selectively pick out a random text from my message and forget the rest? Besides at the end we both know from where americans took all their flag-waving from, and it wasn't from the spaniards fo' zure.

[Jocasta]

Ah the Spaniards... where to begin on their great and honorable history. But let's not bother getting into that discussion.

[Captain Beefheart]

Apart from the banning of muslims-moors and subsequent selective myopia of denying their contributions and heritgate to society/culture there isn't really much to be shameful about, well yeah the crusades but i'm not catholic so I can't answer for that.

Being nationalistic is inherently flawed. A nationalist is proud of his heritage/peer group without having any knowledge of anybody else's heritage/peer group. In the end such things must fall, because if we are to survive long into the future I believe it's necessary that we cease being "Americans", "Chinese", "British", "Japanese" and any other of the tags we use to identify us under a "nationalistic" banner, and come to think of ourselves as "earthlings". Maybe I should run for president of the NWO jajajajajjaja.