DC Comics Essential 30 "Graphic Novels"

Captain Beefheart · 02-08-2008, 04:14 PM

http://www.dccomics.com/sites/essential30/

Initial reaction is all of these books are for the most part post-Crisis(the one in the 80s) and the authors are the usual dickrided suspects(not hating on Frank Miller, but a spade is a spade). And Loeb sucks.

BTW to those who follow Lost, Watchmen is a big influence on JJ Abrams writing. It's such an incredible achievement. So intricate too. Every inch of every panel is important. It stands up to re-reads. I always catch something new when I read it. It's not because of the characters or the specific plot which are kind of generic stand-ins for the characters Moore wasn't allowed to use. It's because of all the interesting things he does with paneling. All the details he layers in there which encourages the reader to flip back and forth between pages and see how things match up.

From Hell may be more amazing writing wise, but for the total package, nothing compares to Watchmen.

SilverSpoon · 02-09-2008, 02:36 PM

I'm re-reading Watchmen right now, and it's even better than the first time. I didn't really catch on to the pirate storyline before, but now I get it.

I seem to have read half of those on that list, and most of them are pretty good. I probably wouldn't have put Superman: Birthright and Superman/Batman on there, though. They weren't that great, but maybe they're big sellers. And Y: The Last Man and Ex Machina, they don't seem to fit on the list since they were/are ongoing monthlies for a long time.

Captain Beefheart · 02-09-2008, 02:46 PM

Incidentally they are re-releasing Killing Joke recolored, as the original artist intended it to be. I don't know how you feel about that. Maybe I just find it hard to get into a representationof one of my favorite villains as a chemical engineer turned failed comedian turned criminal turned I don' t wanna be a criminal turned super criminal. Joker has never really been a criminal proper. He's always sort of been there to underscore Batman's underlying insanity. At least since Killing Joke.

Quote:

The Last Man and Ex Machina, they don't seem to fit on the list since they were/are ongoing monthlies for a long time.

You do realize that most graphic novels, including pretty much everything on this list, are just pulled from the monthlies. Most "graphic novels" are just a particular story arc pulled out of a much largere continuity. I don't think there's more than a handful of books on this list that are self-contained.

SilverSpoon · 02-09-2008, 09:02 PM

Yeah, I know that, but the thing about books like Watchmen and DKR is that they're a much smaller amount of issues and a much more contained story in the "limited time mini series" kind of way. Y: The Last Man is what, like 70 issues? Ex Machina is still going on right now. Once a series has to be collected in several volumes of four to six issues each, it doesn't seem like a "graphic novel" in the same sense that Watchmen is. It becomes a collection of collections. Now make me a 70 issue Y: The Last Man omnibus, and you'll have me sold on the idea of it as a self contained graphic novel.

darko. · 02-10-2008, 01:40 AM

Collected editions are publications of a story from the monthlies. Also known as trade paperbacks. They shouldn't be called graphic novels. The only reason they are, sometimes, is the similar packaging.

At this point the only graphic novel that doesn't piss me off one way or another is Weapon X by barry Windsor Smith. Just good story, good art, and Wolvie gutting everything that moves. No lame crap that doesnt work in comics because it takes you out of the story and think to yourself "That was lame and really doesn't work in this medium. Well it is just a comic!"

'nuff said.

*SNIKT*

**Gumby** · 02-12-2008, 05:00 AM

I've always believed that Joker was what Bruce Wayne could have became if it weren't for his discipline and strength of will. Bruce recognizes that, which is why he wants to help Joker instead of killing him despite Joker being irredeemably evil in the eyes of everyone else.

And yes, Watchmen is the greatest graphic novel ever made. I actually don't think the plot is all that generic. It combines the fantastic, like Dr. Manhattan, and the realistic and makes an original story.

While most superheroes at the time were good guys doing the right thing, Watchmen showed us that there were no easy answers, and super heroes were just people with flaws and failings. Yet its moral compass is that of a complete lunatic. By showing us Rorschach's absolute black and white view of good and evil, it makes the gray-shaded choices of everyone else more understandable and practical, even when what they compromise on is unspeakably horrific.

Yes, the art is deep, clean, and deceptively simple.

SilverSpoon · 02-12-2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darko.

Collected editions are publications of a story from the monthlies. Also known as trade paperbacks. They shouldn't be called graphic novels. The only reason they are, sometimes, is the similar packaging.

At this point the only graphic novel that doesn't piss me off one way or another is Weapon X by barry Windsor Smith. Just good story, good art, and Wolvie gutting everything that moves. No lame crap that doesnt work in comics because it takes you out of the story and think to yourself "That was lame and really doesn't work in this medium. Well it is just a comic!"

'nuff said.

*SNIKT*

It's pretty sad that even with Wolverine's popularity, Weapon X was his last great story. Now that he has his memory back, he's even worse. Oh, and I thought you liked Ronin a lot as well?

I think Pride of Baghdad should've been on that list. They put other Vertigo titles, and Pride of Baghdad is the best from them. There's so much on that list that shouldn't be there, and I feel bad for anyone who thinks Crisis on Infinite Earths is essential. That story and the story behind the story is just a big cluster****.

darko. · 02-12-2008, 04:52 PM

oh yeah i forgot ronin. That's the ****.

DKR would be on the list of comics with no lame crap but he has a 12 yr old girl with him and thats just unforgivable. also tehre's that page where he's naked and holding her. that was lame as hell. I love the colors though. And the layouts.

Yeah Wolvie stories have sucked hard since then. Marvel ruined him.

WTF there are so many that aren't graphic novels. And superman for all seasons sucks. I hated it. I will never read Crisis. My hatred for George Perez is enough to stop me.

Identity Crisis was ok but again NOT A GRAPHIC NOVEL.

Kevin Smith's green arrow run should be on there. the first arc. I liked it.

I hate Kingdom Come. LXG is good but I wouldn't consider it "essential".

You know...now that I think of it, almost all of the titles on there that we have agreed are real "graphic novels" weren't released as 1 book. They were all published as issues. I think DKR was like 4. Watchmen was 8 or so.

Ronin was 8 I believe.

agadghbhgfbgffg

**** comics

SilverSpoon · 02-12-2008, 09:56 PM

I think the only one on that list that's a proper graphic novel that never had separate issues is Arkham Asylum.

02-08-2008, 04:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
Captain Beefheart Mu nótahu Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: In a West End town, a dead end world Posts: 3,672 My Profile	DC Comics Essential 30 "Graphic Novels" http://www.dccomics.com/sites/essential30/ Initial reaction is all of these books are for the most part post-Crisis(the one in the 80s) and the authors are the usual dickrided suspects(not hating on Frank Miller, but a spade is a spade). And Loeb sucks. BTW to those who follow Lost, Watchmen is a big influence on JJ Abrams writing. It's such an incredible achievement. So intricate too. Every inch of every panel is important. It stands up to re-reads. I always catch something new when I read it. It's not because of the characters or the specific plot which are kind of generic stand-ins for the characters Moore wasn't allowed to use. It's because of all the interesting things he does with paneling. All the details he layers in there which encourages the reader to flip back and forth between pages and see how things match up. From Hell may be more amazing writing wise, but for the total package, nothing compares to Watchmen.

02-09-2008, 09:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
SilverSpoon Kamen Rider Kiva Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: www.canofnothing.com Posts: 7,526	Yeah, I know that, but the thing about books like Watchmen and DKR is that they're a much smaller amount of issues and a much more contained story in the "limited time mini series" kind of way. Y: The Last Man is what, like 70 issues? Ex Machina is still going on right now. Once a series has to be collected in several volumes of four to six issues each, it doesn't seem like a "graphic novel" in the same sense that Watchmen is. It becomes a collection of collections. Now make me a 70 issue Y: The Last Man omnibus, and you'll have me sold on the idea of it as a self contained graphic novel. Last edited by SilverSpoon : 02-09-2008 at 09:03 PM.

02-10-2008, 01:40 AM	#5 (permalink)
darko. Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: shlums 'o shaolin Posts: 2,087	Collected editions are publications of a story from the monthlies. Also known as trade paperbacks. They shouldn't be called graphic novels. The only reason they are, sometimes, is the similar packaging. At this point the only graphic novel that doesn't piss me off one way or another is Weapon X by barry Windsor Smith. Just good story, good art, and Wolvie gutting everything that moves. No lame crap that doesnt work in comics because it takes you out of the story and think to yourself "That was lame and really doesn't work in this medium. Well it is just a comic!" 'nuff said. SNIKT Last edited by darko. : 02-10-2008 at 01:42 AM.

02-09-2008, 02:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
SilverSpoon Kamen Rider Kiva Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: www.canofnothing.com Posts: 7,526	I'm re-reading Watchmen right now, and it's even better than the first time. I didn't really catch on to the pirate storyline before, but now I get it. I seem to have read half of those on that list, and most of them are pretty good. I probably wouldn't have put Superman: Birthright and Superman/Batman on there, though. They weren't that great, but maybe they're big sellers. And Y: The Last Man and Ex Machina, they don't seem to fit on the list since they were/are ongoing monthlies for a long time.

02-12-2008, 05:00 AM	#6 (permalink)
Gumby Ya Rly! Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 943 My Profile	I've always believed that Joker was what Bruce Wayne could have became if it weren't for his discipline and strength of will. Bruce recognizes that, which is why he wants to help Joker instead of killing him despite Joker being irredeemably evil in the eyes of everyone else. And yes, Watchmen is the greatest graphic novel ever made. I actually don't think the plot is all that generic. It combines the fantastic, like Dr. Manhattan, and the realistic and makes an original story. While most superheroes at the time were good guys doing the right thing, Watchmen showed us that there were no easy answers, and super heroes were just people with flaws and failings. Yet its moral compass is that of a complete lunatic. By showing us Rorschach's absolute black and white view of good and evil, it makes the gray-shaded choices of everyone else more understandable and practical, even when what they compromise on is unspeakably horrific. Yes, the art is deep, clean, and deceptively simple.

02-12-2008, 04:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
darko. Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: shlums 'o shaolin Posts: 2,087	oh yeah i forgot ronin. That's the **. DKR would be on the list of comics with no lame crap but he has a 12 yr old girl with him and thats just unforgivable. also tehre's that page where he's naked and holding her. that was lame as hell. I love the colors though. And the layouts. Yeah Wolvie stories have sucked hard since then. Marvel ruined him. WTF there are so many that aren't graphic novels. And superman for all seasons sucks. I hated it. I will never read Crisis. My hatred for George Perez is enough to stop me. Identity Crisis was ok but again NOT A GRAPHIC NOVEL. Kevin Smith's green arrow run should be on there. the first arc. I liked it. I hate Kingdom Come. LXG is good but I wouldn't consider it "essential". You know...now that I think of it, almost all of the titles on there that we have agreed are real "graphic novels" weren't released as 1 book. They were all published as issues. I think DKR was like 4. Watchmen was 8 or so. Ronin was 8 I believe. agadghbhgfbgffg ** comics

02-12-2008, 09:56 PM	#9 (permalink)
SilverSpoon Kamen Rider Kiva Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: www.canofnothing.com Posts: 7,526	I think the only one on that list that's a proper graphic novel that never had separate issues is Arkham Asylum.

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